(For Aleah and Rayne) our walk in the forest is not like the wolf’s: we are merely interlopers, transients in the forest, play is serious business: the purpose of civilization is to keep us from ever growing up we have not been of the forest for aeons. to grow up would require us to take responsibility — and cats are only cruel when young and dogs don’t weep (photo: National Geographic) |
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--- My Best 200 Posts, 2003-22 by category, from newest to oldest ---
Collapse Watch:
Hope — On the Balance of Probabilities
The Caste War for the Dregs
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How Do We Teach the Critical Skills
Collapse Not Apocalypse
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Being Adaptable: A Reminder List
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A Future Without Us
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The Mushroom at the End of the World
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The Dark & Gathering Sameness of the World
The End of Philosophy
A Short History of Progress
The Boiling Frog
Our Culture / Ourselves:
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What It Means to be Human
A Culture Built on Wrong Models
Understanding Conservatives
Our Unique Capacity for Hatred
Not Meant to Govern Each Other
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My Reluctant Misanthropy
The Dawn of Everything
Species Shame
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The Right to Die
CoVid-19: Go for Zero
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A Better Way to Work
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Ask Yourself This
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Rogue Primate
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True Story
May I Ask a Question?
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A Harvest of Myths
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Not Ready to Do What's Needed
A Culture of Dependence
So What's Next
Ten Things to Do When You're Feeling Hopeless
No Use to the World Broken
Living in Another World
Does Language Restrict What We Can Think?
The Value of Conversation Manifesto Nobody Knows Anything
If I Only Had 37 Days
The Only Life We Know
A Long Way Down
No Noble Savages
Figments of Reality
Too Far Ahead
Learning From Nature
The Rogue Animal
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If You Wanted to Sabotage the Elections
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Loren Eiseley, in Verse
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The Other Side of 'No Me'
This Body Takes Me For a Walk
The Only One Who Really Knew Me
No Free Will — Fightin' Words
The Paradox of the Self
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What We Think We Know
Bark Bark Bark Bark Bark Bark Bark
Healing From Ourselves
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Nothing Needs to Happen
Nothing to Say About This
What I Wanted to Believe
A Continuous Reassemblage of Meaning
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A Different Kind of Animal
Happy Now?
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Did Early Humans Have Selves?
Nothing On Offer Here
Even Simpler and More Hopeless Than That
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Thank you, friend. “and dogs don’t weepbecause they know there is no God.”Powerful words.
Yes, powerful…but your poem makes me come to another conclusion entirely, Dave. Dogs don’t weep because they are God.It’s only us who’ve lost our way and become separate from God who weep. Thanks very much for this; gives me plenty of food for thought this week ahead.
Powerful? These seem to me to be the words of an angry and unhappy person. Anger is a defensive reaction occuring when one is afraid. If the underlying fear and insecurity is not exposed and dealt with it may cause chronic anger and depression. So why are you so angry with everyone?
Zach, wish we could let you in the fence but this was a creation by Dave in response to a lengthy off-blog discussion between Dave, Aleah and me about philosophies and unanswered questions.In real estate they say the three most important things are Location, Location, Location; in poetry I think it may be Context, Context, Context. Dave, would you say that context defines one’s state of consciousness — and therefore language? ;-)
Zach: Your words seem to me to be the words of a passive and deluded person. Passivity and denial are defensive reactions occurring when one is cowed and browbeaten into acceptance of outrageous behaviour. If the underlying delusion and complacency are not exposed and dealt with they may cause disconnection with reality, and insanity. So why are you so complacent about everything?
This poem is meant to stand on its own, and I hope does not need the context of offline conversation. One of the things Aleah, Rayne and I have been discussing is the schism of language between philosophy, which aspires vainly to intellectual clarity and precision, and poetry, which is a more emotional, more consciously ambiguous form of communication, for better and for worse. They are both, as Eliot said, “raids on the articulate, the general imprecision of meaning”. I have learned that the meaning people take from writing is almost always astonishingly different from what the author intended, and the attempts of analysts, English teachers and other language hatchetmen to achieve consensus of “what the author meant” are generally hysterical, in both senses of the word. As long as it means something, even something different to each reader, it is a success. In philosophic or poetic writing, I foment dissatisfaction. That, it seems, is why I’m here. “The rest is not our business”
I, too, believe that poems are not meant to be placed in context, but rather should stand alone – maybe even more so than any other form of writing. Poems are meant to inspire out of subjectivity rather than reason. In this case, it would seem that the reader was angered by the words he took from Dave’s poem (I am assuming it has something to do with the God reference – but that is only an assumption). I think the poem is simply stating the obvious state of disconnect between humans and nature -I found no unnecessary or hysterical anger here. Again, that is my take on it. Let there be room enough for everyone to leave with their own reactions to the poem. That’s the beauty of poetry. :-)
Hmm. I guess I’m the odd-person out. I think context adds substantially to this particular piece — and to many other pieces that have stood the test of time. Shakespeare’s body of work, for example, is challenging if one does not understand the context of the culture in which he wrote. But I’m still with you, Aleah and Dave, this piece Dave wrote says much about the chasm between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom in terms of their relationship with the world around them.
Am I pushing your buttons? My point was you have called humanity “giant, careless children” as well as “helpless, ignorant, immature, obedient, dependent.” You seem to have a poor opinion of humanity in general. What could cause that? So I’m passive, delusional, and complacent because I no longer want to get angry with the world over all the dumb things we all do? I’m not perfect so how can I expect anyone else to be? I get scared, I “conform,” and I frequently behave badly, you could even say “outrageously.” But if you really know this about yourself how can you judge others so harshly?
I don’t know