Saturday Links of the Week and Sunday Open Thread – December 8 & 9, 2007

6 Responses to Saturday Links of the Week and Sunday Open Thread – December 8 & 9, 2007

1. Chaitanya says:

   December 10, 2007 at 08:57

   Re: open thread: I haven’t given up on systems as i don’t think systems are the ultimate cause of the problems. We speak as if systems have been dumped on us from above. Yes, systems are not perfect, but Systems are a reflection of peoples priorities, and when *people* change, systems will automatically evolve accordingly. I often find that blaming “systems” for problems is a good excuse for doing nothing, and distracts us from much needed personal change at individual level.So yes, iam still working within the current systems, not to change them, but the priorities of people who built them, with the expectation that systems will change automatically as it happens.
2. Mariella says:

   December 10, 2007 at 09:48

   Same as Chaintanya : I do not want to bring meaningful change to those systems… I want people to have the inner resources and capacities to build paralel healthy ones, that will make the existing ones seem obsolete…. i may use the metaphore of an unhealthy selfish mother carrying in her womb a healthy generose child…. My take is that the new systems, to be effective, are to be breeded within the old ones….¿why? because systems and societies are the product of its people and vice versa….
3. joan says:

   December 11, 2007 at 11:21

   Dave: here are some links to real feminist blogs (i’m afraid Broadsheet is feminist-lite at best):ilykadamen.blogspot.com/brownfemipower.com/guyaneseterror.blogspot.com/myecdysis.blogspot.com/feministe.us/blog/feministing.com
4. Vegan says:

   December 12, 2007 at 19:35

   »A Plea for the Protection of Wilderness:”choosing the healthiest meat”«Meat can never be healthy. It kills those who die for it.I’m always profoundly startled by the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance when someone, in the context of “responsible consumption” recommends *what* meat to eat, instead of *no* meat. How utterly psychotic. Like, hello? How responsible is it to eat the corpse of an individual who, because of belonging to the “wrong” species was head-shot so that its hacked up body can end up in some shelve. Any product, for which an animals was hurt -this includes organic- can never be “responsible”, given the nature of the activity involved. Be it meat, milk, eggs, leather, silk, wool and so on. So anyone who is into this whole sustainability and world-improvement thingy not only for a sort of disgusting fetishistic symbolism, must go vegan or risk being called psychotic by someone who gets it.Going vegan is not only the new coming Status Quo, the effect of it will eradicate many of the problems people in this sustainability hype worry about.All connected issues considered, it’s so weird that this is not the central issue in any of these green themed blogs.
5. Dave Pollard says:

   December 13, 2007 at 09:45

   Vegan:I agree with you completely. The challenge is how to relate to the substantial population of progressives who believe in eating small amounts of meat from humanely-raised, organically-fed animals and animals hunted with bow and arrow. If we reject them as allies, we risk being drowned out by the ‘big meat-eaters’./-/ Dave
6. Vegan says:

   December 13, 2007 at 16:44

   I don’t think it’s possible to be progressive and consume any form of animal matter, the two concepts are diametrically opposed. Using animals in any way, is a prehistoric concept which survived into modern times by a silently consenting majority. The point in modern history when all humans were absolutely required to switch to the vegan lifestyle can actually be pinpointed to a specific day. It was when it was discovered how to ferment vitamin B12 without the use of animals. I don’t know the exact day that was, but that’s the point in time when all forms of animal exploitation became amoral. But this is for going vegan. The consenting majority however, could have already gone -vegetarian- even B.C., when Pythagoras laid out the reasoning for it and followed it. This is why I resigned from Christianity, I could not accept Jesus as my savior or a messiah since he ignored this ethical reasoning that was around even several centuries before. In the course of my “autodidactic intellectualization” I became an atheist, if I had to opt for a religion, based on the failure to include vegan, or at least vegetarian ethics as a binding standard when vegetarianism was still a valid option, I could only see myself as vegan Jew. But I’ve turned my back on all religions in disgust. It makes me physically sick when religious people without blinking even use their G-d to justify the use and exploitation of animals. Any script which does not contain the essence that one must grow ethically with knowledge of the time is not worth the paper -or skin- it’s written on. But let’s not stay off so far, what you’re asking me to do really, is to extend that silence towards a minority of perceived allies, in order not to make them feel rejected. Forgetting, that any acceptance of any animal exploitation would be used as a waiver of justification by the great majority. Your apologetics of particular animal destroyers -by rhetorically opening two categories of good and bad animal destroyers and likewise good and bad animal destruction- seeks to justify the wrong priority of these “progressives”. But realistically, they are just part of the problem. Non of the people I criticize are totally devoid of ethical reasoning or live in some undiscovered bush, with bow an arrow. I’m talking about the green hypocrites who hastily joined this sustainability thing because it’s the it-thing to do now. Their priorities are messed up if they ignore one central issue. If you (not you Dave) recycle, but beat your wife, I’d say there is something very wrong with your priorities, because your wife is a much more important part of the environment than what happens to your trash. There is always this element of technocratic separation when sustainabilitists talk about the animals they eat or use, as if those victims did not belong to the environment they are claiming to protect. I’m not sure what you mean with “we”, I’m an animal rights activist who breaks into the death factories to liberate few of the many billions of victims to be placed with other vegans where they can live out their natural lives as family members. I break the law doing that, ironically saving lives can get you jail time. Are you sure you want to associate with such an extremist? Personally, I don’t see that challenge of how to relate to animal destroyers, clearly they are part of the problem regardless as what they see themselves. Why should I be the one who subdues my standards instead of them raising theirs? Since when in human history has compromising ones ethics to fit those of lower status ever resulted in change? Never. Abolition is essential. So let them be alienated. Let them know, that their priorities are messed up. Let them know that “organic” is nothing but a shabby indulgence trade for those who can afford to shop for these animal products to feel better about themselves. How else will they be motivated to change if not by opposition to their behavior? They won’t. How much will they be motivated to keep destroying lives if even the slightest hint of acceptance is communicated. A lot.As for being drowned out. How much more drowned out can one get, when only 5% in general -consider- themselves vegetarians, and out of that 5% only 1% again are vegans? Vegetarians of course don’t really count in anymore, as they are on the side of animal exploiters. They don’t like to hear that, but that’s just a plain fact. Male chicks of the egg-laying breeds get separated after hatching and gassed in trash cans or shredded in wood choppers. There is blood on every egg no matter if conventional or organic. Cows need to be pregnant to be exploited for their milk, “veal” is a side-product to dairy. Organic cows fart organic methane. The animal death industries contribute more towards global warming than traffic! Including airplanes. Every animal on death row requires food, this food is hijacking the majority of farm land on this planet. Farm land that could be used to grow biomass instead. Most farm land is wasted to produce the feed for those being robbed of their flesh, eggs and milk. Going vegan is *central* to the concept of sustainability. But this is not even discussed by these so called progressives. By ignoring this issue, they undermine the very value they claim to be standing for, and therefore justifying anyone who says that they are opting to ignore these progressives. I get this “organic” response almost as an automated message. Organic animal exploitation can only ever remain an extreme fringe concept, given the surface limits. If every human is to be served with organic animal matter, we’d need several more planets of surface. It’s physically impossible. The first priority and the even easiest and most immediate step anyone who is truthfully interested in sustainability is to go vegan. Because sustainability is personal responsibility. The moment one transfers personal responsibility to “a system”, she or he is committing a lie. But perhaps the real problem is addiction, who knows. Animal exploiters do express the same panic behavior and justification attempts as a smoker you just told that he won a holiday in a non-smoking resort. Because the issue that gets lost totally here is that’s actually great to be vegan. It’s fun and tasty. Your body screams thank you’s every time you put vegan food into it. It’s a fundamentally positive experience both physically and mentally. The image people have of veganism and vegans is totally upside down. We’re being perceived as an anorexic sect of masochists who enjoy to punish themselves. Of course having to constantly respond to a hostile environment that is paniced by us doesn’t help to line out the positivity of veganism, so this is for everybody to discover personally. It’s important not to oppress this, to oppress veganism in general or as a personal issue. It needs to get onto the radars.

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